As supreme law clerk, one of my regular duties is document retrieval. Yes I know it sounds trivial, but let me assure you the path to court documents is not for the faint of heart.
Contrary to what you’ve read on the inter-web, electronic documents do not exist in the California Superior Court system. Occasionally you can pull up a scanned document from a court website, but mostly all you can do online is check to see if they acknowledge the filing of the document. If you need a copy of the document, then you need to go to the court to get it.
Yes you can send a letter requesting the documents…smart ass..but it takes 3-4 weeks for a reply. Most people don’t work on county time, and cant afford to wait around while the clerks office creates paper from pulp and ink from cuttlefish, then uses the slowest method of document transport available…the mail. Can you fax a document request? NO Can you… call in a request over the phone? NO You have to either physically walk in and ask, or submit a request through the mail.
Now that we’ve established you have to go to the court house to get a file, the next question is which court house do you go to. Well the answer is a riddle, and even the court clerks have no fucking idea. Normally the court documents are in the court where the case was filed…normally, but only a fool wouldnt call to try and figure out if the court documents are actually in that court house.
To do that you have to actually call the court house. Normally not a huge problem. In San Bernardino County and Los Angeles County they will occasionally pick up the phone…more often then not. In Orange County, as I type this the County has consolidated all of their court phone numbers to one easy number. Terrific right? Wrong.
All calls to a Orange county superior court (with the exception of small claims at the Harbor Justice Center Laguna Hills…go figure) get routed to a call center in Santa Ana. Not that bad you say? Well the neat part is that the call center doesnt actually have enough phone lines to handle the call traffic. Most of the time when you call you get a message informing you that the circuits are busy and to try back later. You are better off just driving to the court house…or are you.
Court houses are gems…busy places of public interest with shit for parking. Everyone will have to go to a court house at some time in their lives, and lots of people go more than they want to, and yet they have enough parking for…none of you.
If you are lucky enough to go to Los Angeles Superior Court Central Division on Grand Ave off the 101 then you are in luck. Right across the street is the Dorthy Chandler pavilion…plenty of underground parking…only a measly $17.
If you are unlucky enough to go to the Riverside county courthouse central where the parking is cheap, you wont be able to find any.
Now that you’ve gotten there you have to deal with the clerks. While the DMV has its own special type of employee the court system has them beat. In the DMV nobody knows what they need, or what they have to do to get it done. The court system is a little different. The court has professionals who spend all their time talking to court clerks. The clerks expect everyone to know exactly what they want when they walk up to their window, and know precisely how to ask for it.
Clerks are in fact a special breed. A court clerk has a job, and is not at risk of losing that job…ever…no matter what. You can just imagine the kind of customer service this type of working situation will breed. None…it breeds nothing. The only thing less fertile is a barren dusty 68 yr old hag. Oh and by the way…shes also who your going to request court documents from.
Anyway…thought I would share a little of my day. Next week I’ll talk to you about Archives. The fun never ends around here.
Time to get dusty
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October 4, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Tonsofgrief
Hi Cry with me, I have a question. How would someone go about finding out the case number etc, for a grand jury hearing that took place in 1952 in Los Angeles.
I have tried everything I can possibly think of now, and I am at a loss as to how to obtain the information I need.
The grand jury hearings were held on the 17th 18th 19th of September and 2nd of October 1952 at Los Angeles.
I have been directed to every agency in the State of California and just keep going around in circles, please enlighten me.
October 4, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Tonsofgrief
“Anyway…thought I would share a little of my day. Next week I’ll talk to you about Archives. The fun never ends around here.”
PS: Looking forward to the archives blog.
October 4, 2008 at 8:48 pm
crywithme
Hello,
I hope I can be of assistance to you. I was actually logging in to do some long over due posting, so as coincidence would have it you will get a speedy reply.
California…what a gem right? Only a few states have grand juries at the county level…California being one of them. Former New York Court of Appeals Judge Sol Wachtler once said famously that prosecutors have so much control over a grand jury that they could convince them to indict a ham sandwich.
1952 huh?
That makes things a little more difficult. The code that actually controls the California Grand Jury is California Penal Code Part 2. Title 4.
A free online copy is here http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.html/pen_table_of_contents.html
The earliest revision of the code I can find is 1959, but there clearly was a grand jury existing before then, since you are looking for a known grand jury before then, and because of this article http://www.cgja.org/pubs/onlinepublications/grdjryhistory.rtf
The next question is what type of grand jury are you looking into. Each county and the state has their own grand jury.
Los Angeles Grand Jury
http://grandjury.co.la.ca.us/
California Grandy Jury Association
http://www.cgja.org/
Each would keep, hopefully, their own records in a number of different places. Contra Costa County keeps their grand jury reports in the public library. The records of the actual proceedings are secret,
Section 891. Every person who, by any means whatsoever, willfully and
knowingly, and without knowledge and consent of the grand jury,
records, or attempts to record, all or part of the proceedings of any
grand jury while it is deliberating or voting, or listens to or
observes, or attempts to listen to or observe, the proceedings of any
grand jury of which he is not a member while such jury is
deliberating or voting is guilty of a misdemeanor.
But the grand jury is required to create a report at the ne dof each year covering what they investigate, and what they find. Grand Jury members however are allowed to talk about what they go over, so you might be able to track down the actual grand jury members, but 1952 was a long time ago.
Leave some more information and I’ll see what I can come up with.
October 6, 2008 at 5:56 am
Tonsofgrief
Well, more information I can give, but how much use it might be I have no idea.
The grand jury was held on the dates above, I know that for sure. There were no indictments issued after the hearing.
The hearings were held in “Los Angeles district court” (quoted from the L A Times.)
There were at least 4 subpoenas issued, Bernard G Klepper, Isadore M Nobel, Martin A Hougen and Bruce Clews.
The hearing centered around $20,000,000 of gold ingots being offered to the Treasury dept for sale. An escrow account had been set up with the first national bank in Ontario Ca, Klepper was the vice president and escrow officer of the bank.
The gold was meant to have been delivered to the SanFrancisco mint on 2 occasions but never was delivered, and so the treasury dept and secret service began the grand jury hearings.
The problem with all those involved is that the last of them died in 1973.
I wish to apply to the courts to release the transcripts as I believe that (Penal Code Section 938.1(b)) can not now be a problem based on all those who tyook part are dead.
My problem is locating the case number and the ionformation I need to apply to the courts for the transcripts.
Thanks for your interest and help. If you need any more info let me know.
October 13, 2008 at 1:03 pm
crywithme
Since it was probably a Federal Grand Jury here is the rule that applies
Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure for the United States District Courts (Refs & Annos)
III. The Grand Jury, the Indictment, and the Information
Rule 6. The Grand Jury
(d) Who May Be Present.
(1) While the Grand Jury Is in Session. The following persons may be present while the grand jury is in session: attorneys for the government, the witness being questioned, interpreters when needed, and a court reporter or an operator of a recording device.
(2) During Deliberations and Voting. No person other than the jurors, and any interpreter needed to assist a hearing-impaired or speech-impaired juror, may be present while the grand jury is deliberating or voting.
(e) Recording and Disclosing the Proceedings.
(1) Recording the Proceedings. Except while the grand jury is deliberating or voting, all proceedings must be recorded by a court reporter or by a suitable recording device. But the validity of a prosecution is not affected by the unintentional failure to make a recording. Unless the court orders otherwise, an attorney for the government will retain control of the recording, the reporter’s notes, and any transcript prepared from those notes.
(2) Secrecy.
(A) No obligation of secrecy may be imposed on any person except in accordance with Rule 6(e)(2)(B).
(B) Unless these rules provide otherwise, the following persons must not disclose a matter occurring before the grand jury:
(i) a grand juror;
(ii) an interpreter;
(iii) a court reporter;
(iv) an operator of a recording device;
(v) a person who transcribes recorded testimony;
(vi) an attorney for the government; or
(vii) a person to whom disclosure is made under Rule 6(e)(3)(A)(ii) or (iii).
(3) Exceptions.
(A) Disclosure of a grand-jury matter–other than the grand jury’s deliberations or any grand juror’s vote–may be made to:
(i) an attorney for the government for use in performing that attorney’s duty;
(ii) any government personnel–including those of a state, state subdivision, Indian tribe, or foreign government–that an attorney for the government considers necessary to assist in performing that attorney’s duty to enforce federal criminal law; or
(iii) a person authorized by 18 U.S.C. § 3322.
(B) A person to whom information is disclosed under Rule 6(e)(3)(A)(ii) may use that information only to assist an attorney for the government in performing that attorney’s duty to enforce federal criminal law. An attorney for the government must promptly provide the court that impaneled the grand jury with the names of all persons to whom a disclosure has been made, and must certify that the attorney has advised those persons of their obligation of secrecy under this rule.
(C) An attorney for the government may disclose any grand-jury matter to another federal grand jury.
(D) An attorney for the government may disclose any grand-jury matter involving foreign intelligence, counterintelligence (as defined in 50 U.S.C. § 401a), or foreign intelligence information (as defined in Rule 6(e)(3)(D)(iii)) to any federal law enforcement, intelligence, protective, immigration, national defense, or national security official to assist the official receiving the information in the performance of that official’s duties. An attorney for the government may also disclose any grand-jury matter involving, within the United States or elsewhere, a threat of attack or other grave hostile acts of a foreign power or its agent, a threat of domestic or international sabotage or terrorism, or clandestine intelligence gathering activities by an intelligence service or network of a foreign power or by its agent, to any appropriate federal, state, state subdivision, Indian tribal, or foreign government official, for the purpose of preventing or responding to such threat or activities.
(i) Any official who receives information under Rule 6(e)(3)(D) may use the information only as necessary in the conduct of that person’s official duties subject to any limitations on the unauthorized disclosure of such information. Any state, state subdivision, Indian tribal, or foreign government official who receives information under Rule 6(e)(3)(D) may use the information only in a manner consistent with any guidelines issued by the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence.
(ii) Within a reasonable time after disclosure is made under Rule 6(e)(3)(D), an attorney for the government must file, under seal, a notice with the court in the district where the grand jury convened stating that such information was disclosed and the departments, agencies, or entities to which the disclosure was made.
(iii) As used in Rule 6(e)(3)(D), the term “foreign intelligence information” means:
(a) information, whether or not it concerns a United States person, that relates to the ability of the United States to protect against–
• actual or potential attack or other grave hostile acts of a foreign power or its agent;
• sabotage or international terrorism by a foreign power or its agent; or
• clandestine intelligence activities by an intelligence service or network of a foreign power or by its agent; or
(b) information, whether or not it concerns a United States person, with respect to a foreign power or foreign territory that relates to–
• the national defense or the security of the United States; or
• the conduct of the foreign affairs of the United States.
(E) The court may authorize disclosure–at a time, in a manner, and subject to any other conditions that it directs–of a grand-jury matter:
(i) preliminarily to or in connection with a judicial proceeding;
(ii) at the request of a defendant who shows that a ground may exist to dismiss the indictment because of a matter that occurred before the grand jury;
(iii) at the request of the government, when sought by a foreign court or prosecutor for use in an official criminal investigation;
(iv) at the request of the government if it shows that the matter may disclose a violation of State, Indian tribal, or foreign criminal law, as long as the disclosure is to an appropriate state, state-subdivision, Indian tribal, or foreign government official for the purpose of enforcing that law; or
(v) at the request of the government if it shows that the matter may disclose a violation of military criminal law under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, as long as the disclosure is to an appropriate military official for the purpose of enforcing that law.
(F) A petition to disclose a grand-jury matter under Rule 6(e)(3)(E)(i) must be filed in the district where the grand jury convened. Unless the hearing is ex parte–as it may be when the government is the petitioner–the petitioner must serve the petition on, and the court must afford a reasonable opportunity to appear and be heard to:
(i) an attorney for the government;
(ii) the parties to the judicial proceeding; and
(iii) any other person whom the court may designate.
(G) If the petition to disclose arises out of a judicial proceeding in another district, the petitioned court must transfer the petition to the other court unless the petitioned court can reasonably determine whether disclosure is proper. If the petitioned court decides to transfer, it must send to the transferee court the material sought to be disclosed, if feasible, and a written evaluation of the need for continued grand-jury secrecy. The transferee court must afford those persons identified in Rule 6(e)(3)(F) a reasonable opportunity to appear and be heard.
(4) Sealed Indictment. The magistrate judge to whom an indictment is returned may direct that the indictment be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been released pending trial. The clerk must then seal the indictment, and no person may disclose the indictment’s existence except as necessary to issue or execute a warrant or summons.
(5) Closed Hearing. Subject to any right to an open hearing in a contempt proceeding, the court must close any hearing to the extent necessary to prevent disclosure of a matter occurring before a grand jury.
(6) Sealed Records. Records, orders, and subpoenas relating to grand-jury proceedings must be kept under seal to the extent and as long as necessary to prevent the unauthorized disclosure of a matter occurring before a grand jury.
(7) Contempt. A knowing violation of Rule 6, or of any guidelines jointly issued by the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence under Rule 6, may be punished as a contempt of court.
(i) “Indian Tribe” Defined. “Indian tribe” means an Indian tribe recognized by the Secretary of the Interior on a list published in the Federal Register under 25 U.S.C. § 479a-1.
October 13, 2008 at 1:23 pm
crywithme
People are serious about keeping Grand Jury Proceedings secret. Curiosity is not usually a good enough reason for turning those documents over.
Heres a well done article, way more than you probably want to read, but he covers Grandy Jury secrecy very well
http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/frames/241/kaditxt.html#heading19
If you have any other questions feel free to send them this way.
October 13, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Tonsofgrief
Thankyou for the research crywithme, I was already aware of the rules though. My problem is that I wish to try to get the transcripts released, but without the relevent case numbers etc etc.
I really just need to locate the whereabouts of the case file and the numbers.
Although I am familiar with the rules of secrecy, it is possible to have the transcripts released.
I would be happy to discuss the matter in more depth with you, but I can not do it on this open discussion board. If you are interested I would be happy to email you more info.
October 19, 2008 at 8:15 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Bod Sounder
Tonsofgrief, I would like to discuss this with you. Did you get the transcripts? you can contact me at *************